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Post by gregothe1st on Feb 1, 2024 9:37:42 GMT
Don't know if this has been covered before but I have managed to fix this on an M29. I have also seen this on a Nagant revolver but that was horrendous, it was nowhere near indexing on all 7 chambers, making it essentially a paperweight
On my M29 when the hammer is cocked slowly it fails to completely index on 2 of the chambers.The fact that it's only on the 2 chambers must be down to manufacturing tolerances, not much can be done about that. I swapped the ejector shaft with a good 629 but it was the same. I noticed that the pawl that locates in the ejector ratchet to rotate the cylinder had about 10 thou of lateral play, a lot more than both my 629s. This probably allows the pawl to slip off the ratchet before the cylinder has indexed
Took the side plate off and saw there is an oblong recess in the side plate to allow the movement of the pawl, I cut a 7thou thick piece of plastic (typical disposeable plastic supermarket fruit ) to fit in the recess and reassembled...the grease holds it in place while putting it back together.
It now indexes perfectly, a result.
Not that all revolvers use identical movements but the M29 and 629s are the same and lack of that lateral play of the pawl was the cause of mine not indexing correctly
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Post by Wild Bill on Feb 1, 2024 9:53:40 GMT
Headhunter is our M29 expert. He'll be along shortly with some advice I reckon.  |
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Modski66
Moderator 
Helpful member, Share holder & resident Barrel Smith.
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Post by Modski66 on Feb 1, 2024 10:04:56 GMT
That's a great tip, I shall remember that if my M29 has any problems.  |
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Post by gregothe1st on Feb 1, 2024 10:37:05 GMT
That's a great tip, I shall remember that if my M29 has any problems. I think if yours is OK from new you'll be ok. My M29 and both my 629s were bought near half price and I wonder if they were sold cheap because they were a bad batch cos only the one of them doesn't need "fixing" |
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Post by Wild Bill on Feb 1, 2024 13:42:50 GMT
That's a great tip, I shall remember that if my M29 has any problems. Glad I could help. |
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Post by Wild Bill on Feb 1, 2024 15:27:32 GMT
That's a great tip, I shall remember that if my M29 has any problems. I think if yours is OK from new you'll be ok. My M29 and both my 629s were bought near half price and I wonder if they were sold cheap because they were a bad batch cos only the one of them doesn't need "fixing" Mine has been fine from new. Had this one a while now and still love it.  |
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Post by gregothe1st on Feb 1, 2024 17:48:49 GMT
I think if yours is OK from new you'll be ok. My M29 and both my 629s were bought near half price and I wonder if they were sold cheap because they were a bad batch cos only the one of them doesn't need "fixing" Mine has been fine from new. Had this one a while now and still love it. Nice box ... and bike, I'm a Guzzi man myself ( but a CRF man in this weather) |
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Post by Wild Bill on Feb 1, 2024 17:55:51 GMT
Mine has been fine from new. Had this one a while now and still love it. Nice box ... and bike, I'm a Guzzi man myself ( but a CRF man in this weather) I have a few bikes buddy. The Thunderbird is my cool posing bike for me and the wife to nip out on. I have my Tracer700 that I use for my high trail exploring and touring.   |
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Post by gregothe1st on Feb 1, 2024 18:12:02 GMT
Just the 2 for me, Breva 750 and a 250 rally, always wanted to off road till I lost front wheel grip on gravel, soon changed my mind.
And it's true about Italian electrics, I had to call out recovery last year , first time in 20 years with a burnt out alternator connector under the seat, fixed it and a week later it burnt out again at the alternator.Apparently a common fault, all good now though
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Post by HeadHunter on Feb 2, 2024 7:27:12 GMT
Don't know if this has been covered before but I have managed to fix this on an M29. I have also seen this on a Nagant revolver but that was horrendous, it was nowhere near indexing on all 7 chambers, making it essentially a paperweight On my M29 when the hammer is cocked slowly it fails to completely index on 2 of the chambers.The fact that it's only on the 2 chambers must be down to manufacturing tolerances, not much can be done about that. I swapped the ejector shaft with a good 629 but it was the same. I noticed that the pawl that locates in the ejector ratchet to rotate the cylinder had about 10 thou of lateral play, a lot more than both my 629s. This probably allows the pawl to slip off the ratchet before the cylinder has indexed Took the side plate off and saw there is an oblong recess in the side plate to allow the movement of the pawl, I cut a 7thou thick piece of plastic (typical disposeable plastic supermarket fruit ) to fit in the recess and reassembled...the grease holds it in place while putting it back together. It now indexes perfectly, a result. Not that all revolvers use identical movements but the M29 and 629s are the same and lack of that lateral play of the pawl was the cause of mine not indexing correctly Luckily for me I've never had a problem with indexing on any of my revolvers but that would have certainly got me scratching my head ! Two chambers not indexing, okay, swap the extractor star out for a good one, still not indexing the two chambers, what ! ( my thought process) If it was the lateral play on the pawl allowing slippage it would do it on every chamber, if it was worn teeth on the extractor star then it would be the same chambers every time unless it was a combination of both (lateral play on the pawl AND slight wear on two teeth of the cylinder ratchet). What I've noticed on the M29s, as well as the M629s, is the run-out (or 'wobble') in the ejector rod being excessive, eg. as the cylinder rotates you can see the barrel end of the ejector rod going out of centre (moving away and towards the frame as it rotates), this can cause the crane arm to lift slightly out of the frame as it rotates through a 6 round cycle. If it's excessive it might stop the cylinder bolt from engaging properly with the cylinder bolt recesses causing it to jam the cylinder prior to properly indexing it. If the run-out is excessive then this would cause the pawl to slip at a certain point(s) as the cylinder goes through it's full rotation, it might be worth checking the end play on the ejector rod as you dry fire it to see whether it's lifting the crane out of the frame, you've obviously found a workaround solution but it may not be the right answer to the original problem. There is a way to straighten the ejector rod out BUT it does require patience and a firm hand, slight adjustments at a time until it sits 'true' to the frame. If you search YouTube for 'S&W crane arm straightening' you'll see a few videos on how to do it in a purpose built jig but our guns are not gun steel so do not require as much force to straighten or even a jig as the whole process can be done in situ, just remember though - small adjustments, check, even smaller adjustments, check again, etc. I hope this helps buddy |
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Modski66
Moderator
Helpful member, Share holder & resident Barrel Smith.
Go ahead, make my day - give me a pie!
Posts: 3,805
Likes: 4,716
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Post by Modski66 on Feb 2, 2024 8:23:50 GMT
Of course, the superior Dan Wesson forward crane latch cleverly avoids this problem...  |
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Post by flatrajectory on Feb 2, 2024 9:20:02 GMT
This is very poor manufacturing / tolerance issue, and should not be happening on a pistol costing near £200.
I have noticed a lot of sloppy actions and working parts on a variety of replicas coming through my workshop of late. It seems to be getting more common.
My advice is ... if buying a replica, don`t buy the latest release until others have bought and tested it for a few months.
Recently I had two Umarex Race Guns in with malfunctions that could nor be fixed, as they were caused by tolerance and cheap parts issues ..... both were new guns.
Pete.
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sixgunner
The Sheriff of Dodge
Posts: 441
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Post by sixgunner on Feb 2, 2024 16:02:55 GMT
Sad fact is, our replicas are cheaply made and overpriced. We are shafted big time, but we have to stump up and accept it. Glad I kept my Ubertis, load of hassle bu properly made.
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Post by Wild Bill on Feb 2, 2024 18:18:32 GMT
As bad as these replica airguns are made, I still love them. Because I remember a time when we had nothing like them. Especially shell loading revolvers but also including replica ww2 guns etc. I am glad we have them.  |
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Post by gregothe1st on Feb 2, 2024 18:43:31 GMT
Don't know if this has been covered before but I have managed to fix this on an M29. I have also seen this on a Nagant revolver but that was horrendous, it was nowhere near indexing on all 7 chambers, making it essentially a paperweight On my M29 when the hammer is cocked slowly it fails to completely index on 2 of the chambers.The fact that it's only on the 2 chambers must be down to manufacturing tolerances, not much can be done about that. I swapped the ejector shaft with a good 629 but it was the same. I noticed that the pawl that locates in the ejector ratchet to rotate the cylinder had about 10 thou of lateral play, a lot more than both my 629s. This probably allows the pawl to slip off the ratchet before the cylinder has indexed Took the side plate off and saw there is an oblong recess in the side plate to allow the movement of the pawl, I cut a 7thou thick piece of plastic (typical disposeable plastic supermarket fruit ) to fit in the recess and reassembled...the grease holds it in place while putting it back together. It now indexes perfectly, a result. Not that all revolvers use identical movements but the M29 and 629s are the same and lack of that lateral play of the pawl was the cause of mine not indexing correctly Luckily for me I've never had a problem with indexing on any of my revolvers but that would have certainly got me scratching my head ! Two chambers not indexing, okay, swap the extractor star out for a good one, still not indexing the two chambers, what ! ( my thought process) If it was the lateral play on the pawl allowing slippage it would do it on every chamber, if it was worn teeth on the extractor star then it would be the same chambers every time unless it was a combination of both (lateral play on the pawl AND slight wear on two teeth of the cylinder ratchet). What I've noticed on the M29s, as well as the M629s, is the run-out (or 'wobble') in the ejector rod being excessive, eg. as the cylinder rotates you can see the barrel end of the ejector rod going out of centre (moving away and towards the frame as it rotates), this can cause the crane arm to lift slightly out of the frame as it rotates through a 6 round cycle. If it's excessive it might stop the cylinder bolt from engaging properly with the cylinder bolt recesses causing it to jam the cylinder prior to properly indexing it. If the run-out is excessive then this would cause the pawl to slip at a certain point(s) as the cylinder goes through it's full rotation, it might be worth checking the end play on the ejector rod as you dry fire it to see whether it's lifting the crane out of the frame, you've obviously found a workaround solution but it may not be the right answer to the original problem. There is a way to straighten the ejector rod out BUT it does require patience and a firm hand, slight adjustments at a time until it sits 'true' to the frame. If you search YouTube for 'S&W crane arm straightening' you'll see a few videos on how to do it in a purpose built jig but our guns are not gun steel so do not require as much force to straighten or even a jig as the whole process can be done in situ, just remember though - small adjustments, check, even smaller adjustments, check again, etc. I hope this helps buddy Yes, I had the crane lifting out the frame slightly, but a quick bodge fixed it. A couple of inches of sellotape wrapped around the crane shaft and also the shaft the cylinder rotates on to take out the play and that was fixed.I was considering sleeving the shafts properly and although I enjoy a challenge this bodge has worked just fine, feels like a different gun really. |
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