Luger P08 Blowback Pistol (KWC) Review
Feb 23, 2021 23:42:57 GMT
HeadHunter, Wild Bill, and 3 more like this
Post by twodoctors on Feb 23, 2021 23:42:57 GMT
The Luger P08 Blowback Pistol (KWC) is an air pistol designed for the warmer weather.
That's the TLDR version.
I've always been fascinated by the Luger P08. No, I'm not a military / history buff. Not German either. I found it fascinating because of the toggle-lock action.
Anyway, one came up for sale on GunStar, so snapped that up immediately. Arrived this morning.
According to the listing, the seller only had it "on display" and not really been used. I can "sympathise with that". More on that later!
As I said, I love that toggle mechanism. None of those "boring" slide lock on a normal pistol.
And the "mandatory" field strip:
And if you are interested, a quick keep at the moving parts.
And no, I'm not going to open her up. There's no need to. There is nothing to fix (fixable) inside.
Good points then:
Lovely trigger. At 3lb, a short break with no overtravel, probably the best trigger in an air pistol so far. Yes, better than the S&W. Definitely better than the SA-10. Better than the M712, another KWC product.
Lovely weight. I haven't got the biggest arms or hands. It's not a light pistol by any means like the Ruger Mk2, but weighty enough to feel... meaty. And light enough to shoot one handed (should the need arise...).
...
...
Nope, can't think of anything else.
Bad points:
Where do I start!
Fixed sights.
There is no adjustment for the sights. In the real thing it looks like it is adjustable for windage on the front sight. Not this one. This one is fake...
That's is not a cardinal sin... it if shoot straight. Except it doesn't. It is shooting slightly to the left.
Again, that can be overcome by aiming off a little. Not ideal, but do-able.
Shoots low. That is a big problem.
I'm not sure about hop-up, and not going to open it up to have a look. I suspect there is hop up, like the M712 has. After all it's the same manufacturer, so they are bound to share parts where possible. Whatever it is, it's not doing enough.
At 5m (and 7m), it is shooting about 1 inch low. I had to aim at the top of the black rings to get it remotely close to the bull.
The biggest problem of all though, is the CO2 usage.
Blowback uses a lot of CO2, and this one is probably the worst out of all of them on the market. Just a quick google search and you will find reviews and posts on this. That's is not a massive problem to me, except that the power level drops very quickly also.
I think I managed to get 30 shots out of 1 capsule. But note that I didn't use the word "useable" in that sentence.
First 10 shots.
In fact, the first 5 shots was above the bull. Second 5 was below.
Next 10.
And the last 10.
Yes, 9 shots only on paper. The 10th one ricochet back to my leg after hitting the wall.
So I proceed to unscrew the CO2 cannister, but wait, there is still gas in it! It is not empty!
The main problem with this gun is the thermal management of the CO2 capsule.
(A bit of physics from a non-physicist) CO2 inside the capsule is liquid. Liquid needs heat to convert back into gas, the latent heat of vaporisation. This comes from the air surrounding the CO2 capsule itself. As CO2 is used, heat is taken from the air surrounding the capsule, and so the capsule gets cold. Do it quick enough and you can get ice on the capsule itself.
Because of the "extreme" use of the CO2 per shot (for the BB as well as the blowback mechanism), a lot of CO2 (and latent heat) is used per shot. And the capsule can get cold very quickly. Unless you can "replace the heat source" so to speak, or able to keep the ambient temperature fairly constant, the power level will drop with each shot. And this is what happens with the Luger.
And that's why despite shot 30 shooting too low and hitting my leg, there is actually still gas inside to fire another BB, if only the capsule itself is a lot "warmer".
And so this gun is best for summer use (because of the temperature issue, as well as accuracy issue). This is a tin-can killer, not a paper puncher.
Is it worth the money?
I'll be honest, if I had paid full price for it (RRP £140 I think), I would be be very angry with myself. I would still be fairly upset if I had paid the NM Product price, which I was going to until this popped up on GunStar. At the price I paid, yeah, it's alright. It has its flaws, but the Luger P08 is very unique in terms of the mechanism, and I intend to keep it. (Although it will probably be the first pistol to go if I was to monetise my collection)
Next job for this? A "McGuiver" rear sight. I read somewhere else about a similar issue, and the person making a new V notch and stuck it onto the existing one, making it higher (and so the pistol shoot lower). Easy to do... the only issue is to find the correct material that will look the part. It's going to be difficult as I'm more of a woodworker and than a blacksmith...
That's the TLDR version.
I've always been fascinated by the Luger P08. No, I'm not a military / history buff. Not German either. I found it fascinating because of the toggle-lock action.
Anyway, one came up for sale on GunStar, so snapped that up immediately. Arrived this morning.
According to the listing, the seller only had it "on display" and not really been used. I can "sympathise with that". More on that later!
As I said, I love that toggle mechanism. None of those "boring" slide lock on a normal pistol.
And the "mandatory" field strip:
And if you are interested, a quick keep at the moving parts.
And no, I'm not going to open her up. There's no need to. There is nothing to fix (fixable) inside.
Good points then:
Lovely trigger. At 3lb, a short break with no overtravel, probably the best trigger in an air pistol so far. Yes, better than the S&W. Definitely better than the SA-10. Better than the M712, another KWC product.
Lovely weight. I haven't got the biggest arms or hands. It's not a light pistol by any means like the Ruger Mk2, but weighty enough to feel... meaty. And light enough to shoot one handed (should the need arise...).
...
...
Nope, can't think of anything else.
Bad points:
Where do I start!
Fixed sights.
There is no adjustment for the sights. In the real thing it looks like it is adjustable for windage on the front sight. Not this one. This one is fake...
That's is not a cardinal sin... it if shoot straight. Except it doesn't. It is shooting slightly to the left.
Again, that can be overcome by aiming off a little. Not ideal, but do-able.
Shoots low. That is a big problem.
I'm not sure about hop-up, and not going to open it up to have a look. I suspect there is hop up, like the M712 has. After all it's the same manufacturer, so they are bound to share parts where possible. Whatever it is, it's not doing enough.
At 5m (and 7m), it is shooting about 1 inch low. I had to aim at the top of the black rings to get it remotely close to the bull.
The biggest problem of all though, is the CO2 usage.
Blowback uses a lot of CO2, and this one is probably the worst out of all of them on the market. Just a quick google search and you will find reviews and posts on this. That's is not a massive problem to me, except that the power level drops very quickly also.
I think I managed to get 30 shots out of 1 capsule. But note that I didn't use the word "useable" in that sentence.
First 10 shots.
In fact, the first 5 shots was above the bull. Second 5 was below.
Next 10.
And the last 10.
Yes, 9 shots only on paper. The 10th one ricochet back to my leg after hitting the wall.
So I proceed to unscrew the CO2 cannister, but wait, there is still gas in it! It is not empty!
The main problem with this gun is the thermal management of the CO2 capsule.
(A bit of physics from a non-physicist) CO2 inside the capsule is liquid. Liquid needs heat to convert back into gas, the latent heat of vaporisation. This comes from the air surrounding the CO2 capsule itself. As CO2 is used, heat is taken from the air surrounding the capsule, and so the capsule gets cold. Do it quick enough and you can get ice on the capsule itself.
Because of the "extreme" use of the CO2 per shot (for the BB as well as the blowback mechanism), a lot of CO2 (and latent heat) is used per shot. And the capsule can get cold very quickly. Unless you can "replace the heat source" so to speak, or able to keep the ambient temperature fairly constant, the power level will drop with each shot. And this is what happens with the Luger.
And that's why despite shot 30 shooting too low and hitting my leg, there is actually still gas inside to fire another BB, if only the capsule itself is a lot "warmer".
And so this gun is best for summer use (because of the temperature issue, as well as accuracy issue). This is a tin-can killer, not a paper puncher.
Is it worth the money?
I'll be honest, if I had paid full price for it (RRP £140 I think), I would be be very angry with myself. I would still be fairly upset if I had paid the NM Product price, which I was going to until this popped up on GunStar. At the price I paid, yeah, it's alright. It has its flaws, but the Luger P08 is very unique in terms of the mechanism, and I intend to keep it. (Although it will probably be the first pistol to go if I was to monetise my collection)
Next job for this? A "McGuiver" rear sight. I read somewhere else about a similar issue, and the person making a new V notch and stuck it onto the existing one, making it higher (and so the pistol shoot lower). Easy to do... the only issue is to find the correct material that will look the part. It's going to be difficult as I'm more of a woodworker and than a blacksmith...
