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Post by honestjohn on Feb 27, 2021 12:32:32 GMT
So all fired up (pun intended) with this thread I thought I would have another go with these. I had completely forgot that I had them. In my indoor range, I have one of those knockdown Zombie things with the pellet catcher, a similar duck one, a bell target with 2 bells and three funnel type card holder pellet catchers. When I want to use one of my 3 blowback bb firing guns I lift off the knockdowns and fit cardboard boxes with rags in them. These can take card targets or the splatter burst stick on things. I have tried these copper coated lead bbs in all three guns. P08 Luger, H&K USP, and of course my Colt 1911. You can’t not have at least one 1911 can you. Any way, I started with the Luger. I only put a maximum of 10 and more usually 8 in any of the magazines. The Luger performed brilliantly with these copper covered balls. Every bit as accurate as steel bbs and no mis feeds except when the gas was going. My H&K USP was superb. I had forgotten just how good this gun is. Accuracy was superb, and I was knocking over the ducks and zombies regularly. I even rang the bell through the largest hole on the bell target three times on the trot. I haven’t done that before with a pellet firer! ..... I know, I know, but I’m not the best shot! My 1911 also cycled perfectly with these, no miss feeds or lock ups. This has been a revelation to me and I shall be using these again very soon. I’m even going to drag my bandsaw out so I can get to the few hundred on the floor behind it where I dropped the tin! Thank you to 2 doctors and Talyllyn for pointing out that you will still get ricochets. In honesty I didn’t get many and what did come back at me was pretty spent. My targets are all in pellet catchers and they seemed to work well. The biggest danger of a serious ricochet seems to be when the target has been completely missed and I’ve hit the white melamine backing board. His isn’t hard enough to completely squash the bb and I had it come back at me with quite a bit of welly. This only happened once and was with the first shot on a new gas cap. Definitely usable indoors with my target arrangements, just got to remember to use my safety glasses! I’m going to see my eye surgeon tomorrow, don’t want to go with a bb wrecking his handwork so far ! [/quote] Now that's music to my ears John.....I've wondered about using the smart shot in my USP (a superb gun) for firing at my metal knock down moving targets and you've answered that perfectly, plus as a bonus they work in the Luger and the 1911's too !!! I can feel a purchasing spree coming, thanks for the info buddy, happy days !  honestjohn How many bbs were you loading into the USP (?15?), I'd only put 8 in the Luger and 7 in the 1911 anyway but just curious to see how many you were loading Shaun, I’ve just been having a go with my USP and these copper covered bbs. I’m using the Webley branded ones at the moment, but I think they are the same as and made by H&N. I aim to load about 8 in all of the guns but regularly put 10 in the USP. I amazed myself with an 8 shot group about 20mm centre to centre with just one shot about a further 12mm from this group. This was 2 handed unrested from 6 yds. They are only dearer when compared to reusable steel bbs. As the tins hold 750, 2 tins of these is equal to three tins of cheap to mid range pellets.[/quote] |
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Post by honestjohn on Feb 27, 2021 18:46:54 GMT
So I tried my P08 Luger with the Webley copper covered lead bbs. This gun definitely does show a shift of poi. My H&K USP didn’t seem to shift the point at all. Perhaps it has a little more power?  |
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Post by HeadHunter on Feb 27, 2021 21:21:02 GMT
I got two tins of the H&N smart shot (and another Luger magazine too) from JSR this morning, so I'm hoping to get a chance to shoot it in the early part of next week but I'll be having a go with the USP, Taurus PT-92, Beretta 92 and my 1911s too. I'm mostly really looking forward to having a go with them in both the USP and Taurus as these are by far my most accurate full action autos.
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Post by honestjohn on Feb 28, 2021 10:40:52 GMT
My 1911 doesn’t group anywhere near as good as the Luger or especially the USP. Looking at the spread I get with it though, it would still hit cans if I had the facility to chase them around. by the way, could somebody advise me if the target photo in my last post has displayed. I ask because I am unused to using these hosting services, and although I can see the photo, I wonder if others can. The photo in my Imgr account is set to private, but of course allows me to see it.
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CaptDAR
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Post by CaptDAR on Feb 28, 2021 11:00:55 GMT
Hi John and yes I can see the picture.
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Post by honestjohn on Feb 28, 2021 12:06:44 GMT
Thanks Captdar, im not familiar with these picture hosting sites and I just happened to notice that this photo was in the private bit, and I suddenly wondered if I was the only person that could see it. Clearly when you link the BB code, that doesn’t matter anymore. Thanks for posting.
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Post by HeadHunter on Mar 2, 2021 16:34:14 GMT
I've just tried the H&N Smart shot and I am very, very impressed ! I found that all of my bb guns had no feeding issues with them at all, not one jam, nothing at all. I only tried them in my indoor 5m range for the moment ( too cold outside at the moment), so once the weather gets a bit warmer I'll try them at 10m and see how they fare. Guns I tried them inGSG 92 - POI=POA, exactly the same as firing steel bbs. Luger - POI=POA, exactly the same as firing steel bbs. ASG X9 - POI=POA, exactly the same as firing steel bbs. H&K USP - POI is roughly 1" lower than the POA, but the grouping size is still consistent and I found that holding a 12 o'clock high POA worked perfectly well. I found that all the guns had the exact same grouping size that I would get with steel bbs, no difference at all. But above all it was great to be able to use the guns to shoot at my moving knock down target, although I did get a couple of ricochets but not enough to worry about and they did seem to have lost a lot of energy by the time they got anywhere near me. Expensive, by Christ YES ! But a lot of fun and if you're using them in a situation where steel bbs (or even ASG plastic Blaster bbs) can't be used then these are a great option ! I'm sold on them, these will be a regular re-order for me although I will be looking for special offers or low priced bargains before ordering oodles of them. |
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Post by honestjohn on Mar 4, 2021 11:38:52 GMT
I love these bbs and I’m so glad that Talyllyn made this post , as I had completely forgot about the three tins I had. When I first used them nearly 12 months ago I was filling the magazine on my USP to full. I now know that this is not best practice, and back then I did have some misfeeds, due I think to the strong spring and the soft lead. I had problems with the plastic ones and the dust devils also breaking up on the magazine. Filling with 8 or so with these copper covered lead ones is not causing any problems at all and the accuracy is as good as steel bbs. All my hard knockdown type targets are of the type built in to a pellet catching steel box, knock down ducks, zombies etc, and most of these bbs are caught in the trap. Unlike the steel ones that bounce back everywhere. The few lead ones that do ricochet are pretty much spent and present no threat to a shooter with eye protection. Cost wise, these are only expensive if compared to reusable steel bbs. They work out about the same cost as mid price pellets, even MKs if you can buy them at a good price. 2 tins of bbs are the same number as 3 tins of pellets, so cost wise there is nothing in it for me, and I can use my same target arrangement for both types of gun. I still use steel ones when I place a rag box with splatter burst targets up for a change, and infinite ammo.
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twodoctors
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Post by twodoctors on Mar 4, 2021 12:16:13 GMT
I guess I'll chip in as well on the Excite Smart Shot.
They are good. That's the long and short of it.
They still ricochet as mentioned in previous posts, but not as much as steel BBs as most of the energy is spent with the deformation.
Accurate enough. Some drop in POI with my Mauser M712 which helps as it is shooting too high anyway. Seemed to have no change in POI with the Luger P08. In both cases could be because of sights issues. Very little shift in windage, and that's saying something.
Expensive? Yes. I take John's point about comparing it to pellets.
I still think they are too expensive. My personal opinion is that with steel BB selling for about £4 for 1500 (if you buy from the right place), and Copper coated at 4x the price at £8 per 750, the maths just doesn't quite add up. You can plink for cheaper with Excite Econ II at £3 for 500, and that's plenty accurate even with my SA-10. I guess if you only have BB guns, then you are limited by your choice of (safer) ammo. How much is safety worth, I guess would be the question. And would you want to shoot reactive targets, because Copper coated is probably the only way to go.
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Post by HeadHunter on Mar 4, 2021 14:51:38 GMT
Just had a chance to try these little 'buggers' out in one of my 1911s, oh my good God ! Accuracy wise they were as good as steel bbs and the grouping tightened up slightly (but that could just be me). I only had a chance to shoot indoors again as it's raining here and still slightly chilly, I can't wait for the better weather to arrive and give these a spin outdoors. talyllyn - Cheers buddy, I'd seen these before and thought that they were just expensive 'tat' but your review made me re-think them and I'm so glad that I did, so thanks again for pointing me in the right direction buddy. honestjohn - I totally agree with your statement about the cost as compared to RWS MK's and I personally think that they worth every penny (for either of them, tbh). I wouldn't want to use these exclusively for all my bb guns and I'm exactly the same with the RWS MK's but they're so very handy for the metal knockdown style of target that I can live with the cost as long as I use the steel bbs and plastic (ASG Blasters) bbs on standard 'soft' targets. I found that I could load 15 smart shot bbs onto my USP and it gave it no loading problems at all, so maybe try that next time John and see how you get on buddy. An absolutely great 'deformable' bb, the perfect ammunition for ringing steel with a bb gun, I personally think that it's about time that we asked the question about allowing bb guns at ranges as long as they use lead bb ammunition, the ammunition can easily be checked with a magnet to make sure that they's no mix up between steel and lead, after all is said and done, pellets are lead and these are made of lead too, so they should be allowed. |
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Post by Wild Bill on Mar 4, 2021 17:20:00 GMT
What's the matter with you guys and ricochets? They are good for you. They keep you on your toes. Whilst taking on the tin can gang yesterday with my Thompson M1A1, quite a few came back at me. One hit me on the cheek and it stung like a rattle snakes bite. That made me open fire on the gang and massacre them in a fit of adrenaline filled rage. It was great.  |
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